Francis Hamit, Author of New Epic Historical Novel, STARMEN, Shares Story Behind the Book!

Book Readers Heaven is Honored to Welcome Francis Hamit, Author of the New and Epic Historical Novel, STARMEN, to talk about how he came to write the book...and more! Please welcome this author and a man who I admire even more with this book than from all those I've read since 2009 (do a search in the right column to check out his earlier historical novels...)

Good Morning Francis, I understand that you used Kickstarter to publish this new book... Please tell us more!

Thank you, Glenda. It's good to be back here and sharing about what I consider a wonderful and extraordinary novel that had to be published with help! KickStarter provided the opportunity that I really needed at the time...

I proposed a project for Kickstarter which was to produce A Literary Experiment with Genres!

Here's the synopsis I provided which may show others who to consider funding their books in this way...

This is my COVID Lockdown project. It is the experimental blending of several genres. It's a detective story that begins at the El Paso office of the Pinkerton National Detective Agency in 1875. That also makes it historical. A huge balloon arrives with a group from the British Ethnographic Society. With them is George James Frazer, a young academic from Cambridge who wants to study the Apaches. The balloon is commanded by Rose Green, a beautiful young woman who is the daughter of Confederate secret agent Rose Greenhow. The balloon is surveying for minerals and is a threat to the USA and the Apaches and Mexico. A young Apache boy working for Pinkerton's becomes Frazer's guide. He says that Apache witches can fly...and later proves it by flying himself! The balloon intrudes on a sacred place and its crew encounters multiple troubles but Frazer, left with the Apaches, almost becomes one of them. Pinkerton's is hired to find the balloon and the missing heir to a wealthy Chicago family. Two detectives, one of them newly hired and suspected of being an agent of the Confederate government in exile in Britain, go in search of the heir. Their journey takes them to a curious small town taken over by a hotelier whose customers come from far way; very far away. Famous gunfighters are one of the amusements provided with showdowns and barfights every day. The Strangers win every fight. The missing heir has been arrested for killing a Stranger in a bar fight. He cannot buy his way out of it and his parents, fortunately, had appealed to the detectives for help. There are also romantic, magical subplots.

Here is what Jacqueline Litchenberg said about STARMEN

I read the manuscript of this book. As all of Hamit’s work, it is engrossing, well paced, easily readable storytelling. But the mixture of history, imagination, and insightful extrapolation doesn’t fit current commercial genre formulae. Notably, even after years, I recall many vivid images from the book that should be set pieces from an Indiana Jones movie.

~~~

But it wasn't only Covid which brought me to write this book. It was done based upon the medical recommendation to prevent Dementia after spinal stenosis surgery in 2019 and 2022. I'm still recovering after two years. To share a little more on my health and work to regain my health, other defenses for my mind included more than a dozen of The Great Courses and playing with artificial intelligence art with ArtSpace.ai. Some of the academic material inspired parts of the STARMEN narrative. The Transcendentalist movement, Quantum Mechanics, String Theory and some game theory and history all went into the mix, as did the ones about Native American history. I also wandered around Wikipedia a lot! All of this built upon previous research for my Civil War spy novels. 

I decided to have fun with it and mix in a lot of genres. I don't like artificial limits on storytelling. And because of that I never submitted it to an agent or publisher. I'm really too old to wait for people to get back to me and I don't like other people telling me what to write or how to write simply because they want to chase the latest market trend. 

Wow Francis! I'm impressed, not just with the book itself, but with what you needed to do to bring about this epic novel... And I very much appreciate your sharing about your health issues... Right now I have seen too much ageism being thrown around on the news and it really is frustrating... Most of us who see that we are aging do something about it... I, for instance, started taking Neuriva for cognitive support. I remember that my mother, who had four children, would often call for one of them and she would go through, sometimes all four names until she got the right one out. I find that I do that now. And, I also forget names... I even laugh about it because I am able to produce book reviews with little trouble, but I'd forget the characters' names. Personally I think this is based upon so many interactions we have these days. It is impossible to even have the time to create "methods" like experts would share for remembering an individual's name... LOL I do not consider mixing up names a cognitive issue...

But, please, let's hear a little about the book!

As for the story, it is set ten years after the Civil War has ended when Reconstruction has failed, I had to do a lot of deep thinking about Jubal Early and the so-called Southern Historical Society and its "The Lost Cause" narrative. I believe it is the greatest disinformation campaign in history; one that is still running today. It is very hard to penetrate that myth and its glorification of racial prejudice.

It is only recently that counter-narratives such as "The 1619 Project" have appeared. People simply do not understand the absolute horror of that era. Slavery was a cancer that had to be demolished.

In STARMEN I use political intrigue to expose what I think really happened. Britain ran a lot of the Confederacy. Certainly they built and provided most of the crews for the commerce raiders. The Confederate Navy's home port is Liverpool and we travelled there in 2014 as part of my research. Britain funded the South as well by buying cotton and shipping arms and military supplies. At the end of the war they were very afraid the Union would point its half a million men army north and take Canada. Their internal diplomatic correspondence of the time reveals that and they were happy to get off cheap by paying 15 million dollars to settle the Alabama claims. No one knows what happened to the Confederate Treasury's four million dollars in gold. 

In STARMEN I have used it to finance Early's "Lost Cause" narrative; i.e, the South did rise again...at the ballot box, and, yes, that is a cautionary tale relative to our current political crisis. The Russians have been running disinformation campaigns here since the 1930s. Putting this all together required a lot of deep thinking. 

Getting it ready for publication required a lot of severe editing by Leigh. And since we are both disabled. it took a lot of time and a Kickstarter campaign and a small credit union loan to pay contractors to format it for the various e-book and print editions. Now there is the publicity campaign...

Thank you so much for being here today... I was, in fact, most impressed when you took the issue of early prejudice in America, beginning with our Native Americans and Black Slaves. I don't think I would have ever come to know exactly what has and is happening in America if it wasn't for the books I've read, often written by those who were/are recipients of the ongoing prejudice against them... In fact, as I read The End of White Politics, I am finding just how deep those historical roots still are. I am both amazed at the specifics and saddened by the continued attempts of the white community of America to not only destroy the involvement of our Black and Brown citizens, but to, if they gain power, to start "relocation" of those individuals... Specifically, to eliminate the Constitution and our Democratic country! It has been spelled out and provided for review (900 pages) Here's a brief video...as an overview... It was published by The Heritage group which provided all of the names to Trump to nominate for judges throughout the nation! And look what is happening from those appointments since then!

Thanks again Francis... Be Well!

Folks, my review of this fantastic novel will follow as quickly as possible...

GABixlerReviews

Welcome John C. Robinson, Author of BREAKTHROUGH, a Challenge to Today's Aging!

Good Morning, today John C. Robinson, clinical psychologist, minister and author who writes and speaks about the psychology and spirituality of aging, is here at Book Readers Heaven via an email interview and discussion. Insofar as possible, I try to provide the author with questions or comments regarding his/her book and then also give another chance to review any further responses I have. Time is necessarily a factor, but I try to provide my review first, followed by the discussion, which appears as questions...

So you might want to check out my review which was published yesterday before you begin reading our discussion.

While this is a novel, it is fiction based upon non-fiction. So, as usual, I looked at the credentials of the writer as I began to read... 

First, here is a link to his website--http://www.johnrobinson.org/ He has a list of his publications and tells quite a bit of what he's been involved with for many years. Because his work directly relates to his novel, I am including his bio in its entirety since it will help readers getting into the discussion... And please feel free to add questions or comments below. I will forward to the author and seek his feedback to be added later.

Biography

Tree of Life Quilt Design

I am a clinical psychologist with a second doctorate in ministry, ordained interfaith minister, author, husband and father. I started writing books about psychology and spirituality at midlife and I couldn’t stop. Looking back now, I am beginning to see the larger design of my work, like one of my wife’s quilts when it’s hung, all the pieces finally in place, the design evident. Quite without planning, I have been following a single vision of life that I am certain is true, though I can take no credit for it. As music comes through a
composer, this vision came through me.


I wrote Death of a Hero, Birth of the Soul -- a description of the male midlife passage -- while dealing with my own midlife and specializing with men’s issues in my psychology practice. The book argued that the central developmental task men faced in their forties was to replace the traditional model of manhood -- driven, competitive, soul-numbing and exhausting, with a deeper and truer model, one that unleashes the true self and its gifts. This first book also hinted at the possibility of one day living in the divine world, an experience forgotten since theologians convinced the Western World that we had been expelled from the Garden for some mythical figure’s "Original Sin."

I then moved more deeply into the spiritual realm. Intuiting that psychotherapy was only half the solution to psychological problems, I wrote But Where Is God? Psychotherapy and the Religious Search. It was meant for psychotherapists of all stripes who either left spirituality out of their work (often dismissing its insights as irrelevant or even pathological) or inadvertently (and unethically) imposed their own spiritual beliefs on their clients. I wanted to heal the split between the defiantly empirical medical model and the sometimes rigid theologies of religion. I knew that psychology more fully appreciated the dark side of religion (the reality of sexual scandals, religiously-rationalized child abuse, spiritual addictions) and that religion better appreciated the forgotten spiritual side of healing (the value of prayer, the healing of Presence, and the importance of ultimate questions).

After envisioning a spiritually-oriented psychotherapy, I wrote Ordinary Enlightenment: Experiencing God’s Presence in Everyday Life, for I longed to understand the nature of Presence and how to experience it. By the time the book was completed, I knew firsthand what God’s Presence felt like and how it changes us. I had entered the realm of mysticism -- the direct experience of divinity -- and began to see how this experience can transfigure the world in the most extraordinary ways.

The mystics from across time and religion often talk about seeing Heaven on Earth. They say that Heaven is already here when we are awake enough to see it, and that this awakening occurs in the experience of the Presence. As I found more and more evidence of this universal realization, I was thrilled and amazed -- Heaven on Earth seems to the best-kept secret of the spiritual life! I wondered, "Why doesn’t everyone and every religion talk about this?" I explored this amazing theme in Finding Heaven Here.

Then, as I started to age, I sensed that growing older continues this same unfolding transformation of consciousness that had begun with midlife. More than that, I realized that aging itself offers the highest levels of spiritual realization if we understand and surrender to its powerful energies. The Three Secrets of Aging describes these energies as initiation, transformation and revelation and argues that they are intrinsic to natural aging. Moreover, as advances in medicine, nutrition and public health increased the average life span by nearly thirty years, we are now witnessing the unfolding of an entirely new stage of life.

Hoping to make this vision of aging more accessible (and more fun), I wrote Bedtime Stories for Elders: What Fairy Tales Can Teach Us About the New Aging. Drawing on ten old and new fairy tales from around the world, I invite older folks (just like me) to discover the three secrets of aging in symbolic parables.

It should be evident by now that the vision I have been following represents the call of a profound developmental process driving the second half of life. Aging is changing me, revealing an essence I had long sensed but couldn’t get at until time, loss, and love broke loose the façade I had created so many years ago. In aging, I return to a sacred consciousness that now welcomes me home to myself.

~~~

Good Morning Dr. Robinson, I'm so happy you agreed to discuss your new novel, Breakthrough, with me and readers of Book Readers Heaven. I admit I enjoy reading fiction versus nonfiction, although I did ask for a sample of your Bedtime Stories book which sounded fun. I understand you switched to fiction, hoping to get your ideas more into the mainstream through a good story. I can agree it's a good story, but have you found that you are indeed getting a bigger response to the novel as opposed to your nonfiction books?  Personally, I'd love to recommend it to church-related or other book groups--those who are willing and interested in exploring the inner life at the same time they are reading about characters who may have (or have) actually been involved in what is happening in the book. So you know the obvious next question...How much of this is autobiographical? 

Glenda, I only write about what I know personally: I lived most of the experiences in this book!

One of the first thoughts that came to mind when I started to read was whether this book was related to "New Age". One of the issues for readers is that, oftentimes, writers begin to use a different lexicon for what may be a regurgitation of older principles... When a close relative told me that Yanni was a New Age musician and I shouldn't listen to him--well, let's just say I kept the words in my mouth to prevent a family quarrel. But, I do know semantics is often the basis for problems in communications, So could you explain the basic philosophy of your book versus "New Age?"

As I understand it, New Age refers to... a wide ranging explosion of Eastern, Western, esoteric and alternative medicine ideas that began in the early 1970's. It seemed to reflect a popular need to break free of traditional theological models that felt too confining, prescriptive and intellectual to many who longed instead for a personal experience of spirituality. Like the Burning Man  festival, it was a creative movement by sincere and very independent seekers that supported nearly any path and never really attempted to became an organized religion, which would violate its free-for-all ethos. 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Burning_Man

Burning Man is an annual gathering that takes place at Black Rock City—a temporary community erected in the Black Rock Desertin Nevada. The event is described as an experiment in community and art, influenced by 10 main principles, including "radical" inclusion, self-reliance and self-expression, as well as community cooperation, gifting and decommodification, and leaving no trace. First held in 1986 on Baker Beach in San Francisco as a small function organized by Larry Harvey and a group of friends, it has since been held annually, spanning from the last Sunday in August to the first Monday in September (Labor Day). At Burning Man the community explores various forms of artistic self-expression, created in celebration for the pleasure of all participants. Participation is a key precept for the community - selfless giving of one's unique talents for the enjoyment of all is encouraged and actively reinforced. Some of these generous out-pourings of creativity can include experimental and interactive sculpture, building, performance, and art cars among other mediums, often inspired by the yearly theme, chosen by organizers. The event takes its name from its culmination, the symbolic, ritual burning of a large wooden effigy ("the Man") that traditionally occurs on the Saturday evening of the event.

Certainly, We are living decades longer than ever before, but what is this new developmental stage for? Tom realizes that aging is enlightenment in slow motion, a death-and-rebirth journey that may even awaken planetary consciousness. The implications are awesome: A new kind of aging and perhaps even a new kind of human. In sum, aging can be the crowning achievement of human life.

A word that you used throughout the book is beliefs. I remained unsure of exactly what was meant since it was used so often. Specifically, you talk about giving up beliefs and allowing thinking to disappear (written as I understood it). Originally I thought you were talking about the rules and regulations--beliefs--of any particular religion. But then, in the dreams of two different characters, they were confronted by Jesus, which implied it was related to Christian beliefs, which I really didn't think you meant. So, could you share more about your intent in using the word beliefs?

By belief, I am referring to any ideational structure that comes between subject and object. When we look at a tree, we immediately upload our consensual ideas about trees. We name it, explain it, and move on. Looking at a tree in mystical consciousness is very different. We stop thinking, heighten and focus awareness directly on the tree, and examine its nature directly with a still and silent awareness. Then it's not just a concept, it becomes an experience - unique, astonishing, beautiful and personally impactful. This is not to say beliefs are bad, only that they create lenses that can take over our experience of reality.

Before I put you totally on the spot, I want to mention to you, and remind readers, that I consider your book as being the next step I've experienced through two previous books and interviews with authors... I've always been interested in religion, spirituality and interpersonal relationships, so I've always been reading, rejecting, accepting of issues that became important to me...

Then I read The River of Life by Lee Harmon with a full discussion on his book...

And a Personal Memoir, Prisoner of Belief,  by Dr. John Van Dixhorn, also with a discussion...(If you want to refer to either of these, the review is published first and the Discussion on the next day...)

Now Breakthrough has provided, perhaps, the last answers in my constant questioning of Why? What? How? Why? So, Dr. Robinson, I hope you'll bear with me as I dig deeper into what is provided in your book! 

Paul came into Tom's life as a client. Your choice to create Paul as a nonprofessional, somewhat dominated husband of a very religious woman, I found to be very interesting. I could guess, but, please, why did you choose a man such as Paul to deliver the issue into Tom's head? Again, though coincidentally in the book, you next had Tom go on a Vision Quest, which is most times associated with Native American  culture. In fact, each of your characters appear to be uniquely created to pinpoint some issue that you wanted your readers to see. If I'm right, would you mind clarifying and explaining your thoughts, please.

Great questions. I wanted a character that would reflect the mystical experience in a pure way, without a lot of intellectual baggage. Tom was full of intellectual baggage. He had lots of training, diagnostic categories for every condition, opinions on everything, but his model of the world was completely derailed by Paul's mystical consciousness. It didn't fit anywhere. Tom and his colleagues kept trying to reduce it to a psychiatric condition, which is what psychiatry actually did historically. Happily, Paul's experience began instead to undermine Tom's secure grasp of reality, a necessary step in the evolution of personal spirituality and consciousness. If we are stuck with a rigid model, we wont' learn anything new. I loved Tom's decision to go on the vision quest. He naively thought it was just a retreat of some sort that would give him space to think more; instead his thinking was further unglued. And yes, each character was created to carry a point of view about the spiritual journey. I loved the freedom of getting to speak from many different voices.

Your professional experience appears to have been planned very carefully. For our readers, how do you see each area of specialty as it relates to your life and your books? Specifically, what is the relationship between each?

I grew up in a family dominated by science, psychoanalysis and intellect, and critical of religion, yet I was always drawn to ultimate questions: why are we here, what is life, what is suffering? I pursued psychology because I sensed it held some of the answers but really I was biding my time until I was old enough and the culture free enough to explore more metaphysical ones. Gradually I shifted my work from traditional practice to more experiential possibilities including the mythopoetic men's movement and the integration of psychotherapy and spirituality. I returned to school for a Doctor of Ministry degree and interfaith ordination in order to balance my training and enhance my credibility. 

And yes, the distinctions between psychology, religion, spirituality and mysticism are important. Psychology studies human thought, emotion and behavior, and clinical psychological seeks to understand and treat psychological suffering. 

Mystical experiences like Paul's are the source of all authentic religion. Jesus, Buddha, Moses, Muhammad and countless others all had profound mystical experiences; their revelations turned into world religions. Less enlightened followers conceptualized their experiences, hoping to understand, teach, and repeat them. In the process, they created theologies that were often more about the personalities and beliefs of the theologians than about God, leading to considerable misunderstanding. 

This is an important recognition to me...It fits! It explains many of my "why" questions...

Fortunately, mystical consciousness allows us to re-experience a religion's original truths and distinguish them from Ego-derived proclamations and dogma. Spirituality refers to our personal understanding of ultimate questions. A congregation of 300 people may have one religion but 300 different spiritual interpretations.

That last sentence is also an important statement. How many times do individuals speak to others with what can be considered judgmental statements..."You must do this or that before...or in order to..." when we really have no way to claim that we know that individual's relationship with God. I've always tried to live so that I didn't try to judge another person's beliefs...We can share them, of course, as you are doing, but unless we become intimately involved in discussion, I will not argue the legitimacy of another's beliefs... Thank you so much for sharing these thoughts!

What is your religion? 

I really belong to the mystical branch of every religion. The mystics are my brothers and sisters.

Well said.

One of the things that has evolved for me, based upon history as well as ongoing daily living, is the realization that few people other than atheists, do not question that God exists. It seemed to me that it was when each religion was "created" and the founder, scripture, etc., that you mentioned above becomes the foundation of that religion, that is when people started disagreements, churches split off, and wars began--most noticeably for the attempt to stuff that new religion down the throats of everybody else.   Your book discusses this, I think, very important issue in detail, but could you highlight your thoughts based upon your studies, please.

You are right. In America, there are over 500 different sects of Christianity: one religion, multiplying interpretations. Which is why I love the realm of mystical consciousness. We can each subjectively explore a religions teaching in our own first hand experience of the divine. Arguing about theological differences is usually futile. No one changes their opinion. And anyway, what is God's religion? Religion is a human invention - it can be very meaningful or very confusing and controlling. We each have to find answers for ourself and I suggest the best answers come from direct experience.

I, too, have come to that conclusion, although I'm still "allowing" myself to explore the ultimate of what it is that you describe.

One of my early personal ideas was that, for me, I thought we should have heaven on earth (seemingly more important than looking toward a far future, LOL). Your book, however, includes both! Yes!!! A much more palatable concept for me--but quite different from that which has been normally taught. I would admit, even more...that it feels "right" to my inner spirit...

Ok, I do have to stop and raise a semantics question. From my background, I believe the Holy Spirit abides within us. In other words, the Father, the Son and the Holy Ghost. For purposes of understanding your book, and with my own experience, would I be right to assume that the consciousness you discuss eliminated both the Son and the Holy Ghost and forges the connection with God himself? Or am I trying to fit my experience into your book's material. Help me, and others, understand, please.  

The mystic seeks direct experience of the divine. We can call the divine any name that feels comfortable, but if we get too complex and conceptual, we begin to worship our ideas more than divinity. I have always been interested in experiencing God directly. When I studied accounts of first hand mystical experience, I was amazed by the clarity and consistency of their reports. This was much more empirical, much less theological. The Ego likes complexity because it feels important, powerful, superior. They mystic likes direct experience and has little or no false self to prop up with beliefs.

Certainly an experience that calls to our inner being, doesn't it?!

I'm interested in the evolution of your studies...were you religious prior to becoming a student of mysticism? If not, have you also studied traditional religions, so that you could compare the lexicon of mysticism with religious groups? It seems to me that the terminology could become a stumbling block because of the confusion. 

For instance, the author of Prisoner of Belief had left his religious training and experience behind and is now a clinical psychologist. When I described a personal experience, he noted that it was more mysticism than, as I had referred to it, as gifts of the holy spirit. For myself, I tend to not worry about what something is called by one group versus another, but it seems to me that a lot of "reinventing the wheel" takes place when, in rejecting religious experiences as different from what is in essence, at least to me, the mystical side of all interaction with God, that we fail to take advantage of considering the experiences of many who have just not realized and been able to explain some experience they went through.

Paul, for instance, sought help, fearing his mental health. Tom, then, went into extensive research and interaction with various individuals that could have had some experiences that he had now begun to have. If we have to stop and think...consciousness equals God contact...what's this new thing that this new author is writing about and how does it differ from what I already have experienced in my life?

I have always wanted to simply religion and spirituality, to find the experiences that gave birth to knowing. Countless books have been written on theology from so many different religions, but who has been personally touched by all this thought. If unity is true, and all religions embrace the idea that we are one, then we have to be made of the same stuff as God. If we can feel the being of our being, and become conscious of our consciousness, we are directly in touch with this oneness, and this experience is transforming. We are not who we think we are, we are the embodiment of divinity. The

mystic Meister Eckhart said, "God is the being of my being. My truest "I" is God." This, too, is an archetypal idea, it just happens to threaten those committed to dualistic beliefs. This "new thing" is just the pure first hand experience of what is.

Eckhart von Hochheim O.P. (c. 1260 – c. 1328), commonly known as Meister Eckhart [ˈmaɪ̯stɐ ˈɛkʰaʀt], was a Germantheologian, philosopher and mystic, born near Gotha, in the Landgraviate of Thuringia in the Holy Roman Empire.
Eckhart came into prominence during the Avignon Papacy, at a time of increased tensions between monastic orders, diocesan clergy, the Franciscan Order, and Eckhart's Dominican Order of Preachers. In later life, he was accused of heresy and brought up before the local Franciscan-led Inquisition, and tried as a heretic by Pope John XXII. He seems to have died before his verdict was received.[citation needed]
He was well known for his work with pious lay groups such as the Friends of God and was succeeded by his more circumspect disciples John Tauler and Henry Suso.  Since the 19th century, he has received renewed attention. He has acquired a status as a great mystic within contemporary popular spirituality, as well as considerable interest by scholars situating him within the medieval scholastic and philosophical tradition.

~~~

On the other hand, I must admit that I've been looking at things differently as a result of the aging process. Much you've written about in your book, including, for instance, studying your own hand, has become a part of my own experience. And I agree wholeheartedly with the recommendation to allow things to happen as they do... But then, why did you write your book, LOL? 

I write because it grows me to write. I write because I have to. It's the work of my soul. There is a compass in my psyche always pointing to the ultimate, so I keep following it. Aging is just the next expression of this process. It, too, is sacred, mystical, amazing, beautiful, and profound. I live more and more in a sacred reality and I believe this is our spiritual destiny.   

How does this book reflect what you call the New Aging in America--and exactly what do you mean by that?

I suppose this work is an extension of the same creativity that fueled the New Age movement, though I don't' need to label it with such categories. Categories are part of the belief process that divides and confuses us. I am just happy living it and inviting others to do likewise. 

Ahhh, a perfect way to finish our discussion... Or look forward to another one! Thank you so much for spending time with me and readers of Book Readers Heaven--here on earth, LOL! You've fueled me with so much. Indeed, to repeat your last statement:  I am just happy living it...

It's been a pleasure sharing my work with you. I hope my responses were sufficiently on target. Your questions are wonderful, your journey has obviously been rich, and I hope our paths cross again in the future. Thanks for your interest!

Best wishes, John

Welcome to Dr. John Van Dixhorn, Author of Prisoner of Belief. a Life Story...One That Affected Mine...

“What would it take to change
 your mind about things you think
 are true at this time?” 

Good Morning Dr. Van Dixhorn! Thank you so much for visiting with me here at Book Readers Heaven. First, do you mind if I call you John since we're of the same age range? LOL

Please feel free to call me John in the same way I call you Glenda.

You've already read my review, but like I said when I first contacted you, for some books, I like to go further into the book and discuss important issues you covered. Prisoner of Belief is certainly one of those books! I love the title, but, still, would like to hear how you came to name your book? And also, what led you to write your book?

I define a “prisoner of belief” as someone whose mind is controlled by a dogma that cannot change with new information.  If you ask someone who thinks Evolution sets forth certain truths, “What would it take to change your mind about things you think are true at this time?” They immediately could point to a number of discoveries that could be made that would change things for them.

To the prisoner of belief no new information would change anything.  They are locked into a box and cannot think outside of it.  All their intelligence goes into defending the dogma.  And the more absurd the dogma the more intelligence it takes to defend it. We do not have scores and scores of church councils for nothing.  They were badly needed to defend orthodoxy and nothing more.  There are a few very special theologians I have studied who have said, “It is very possible that God doesn’t exist, but here are the reasons I think he does.”  I do not call these Theist, “prisoners of belief.”

Or, perhaps like me, many had rejected the dogma and just went on from there???

Going public with a book about my psychological journey of discovery was more a personal record of my religious journey, than a desire to get involved with a lot of public discourse.  I felt if I did not define myself around these difficult issues, many people I know would like to define me in ways that were not true - like "John really wasn't an atheist, he was more..." and after I die I have no power over how people would define me.  Isn't this the sad story of Jesus?  He never wrote anything.  We only have a record of how he was defined 50 years after his death, by those who only heard from others and heard what they wanted to hear.  I didn't want this important part of my life to get distorted, by those who would want my truth to be something else than what it was... 


  

Your sub-title also gave me a nudge for a question... Specifically about reclaiming your soul... The first definition I came to in a computer search was "the spiritual or immaterial part of a human being or animal, regarded as immortal." 

My question then is, why was it important to you to reclaim your soul? And, for clarity, how do you define "soul"?

The Greek word “psyche” from which we get our word “psychology” doesn’t always mean a spiritual element that is immortal.  It is sometimes translated mind or spirit.  I use it as a psychological entity that involves the inner life of emotions, instincts, motivations, desires, integrity etc. that determine what is real rather than false in a person. The human spirit of course dies when the brain dies.  I think that all things have a natural explanation, and that when we can’t come up with a natural explanation we create a supernatural explanation, that involves our imagination or superstition, void of any real evidence.  When we encounter something that appears to lie outside the natural world that is imperfectly understood, we hope eventually to understand it within the natural.  Some things belonging to the natural world will never be understood by the human mind.  I like the word “soul” in describing the most real longings of the human heart.  Now I’m using the word “heart” in the same way I use the word “soul.”  I’m not thinking of the heart as that which is pumping inside our chests.

I admit that the concept of immortality (heaven) has never really made a major impression on me...I wanted the "personal spiritual connection" that came with the Holy Spirit...as the primary goal of being a Christian...

John, if I'm following your line of thinking, then humans have evolved to possess such abilities to "imagine" that we just happened to arrive at the stage where we have such abilities of thinking, without benefit of a superior being ever being involved in our creation?

I think I did a bad job in explaining what I meant by how our instincts create the Gods we do.  If I have insights and don’t deny my instinctual jealousy, desire for power, need to be admired, want to make people feel guilty when they don’t do what I want from them, the need to stand out and be the only one, be disappointed with imperfection, etc. then I realize I’m going to project those traits on a supreme being.  God is all those things and more.

That certainly would help to begin to explain wars based upon religions, prejudice, and many of the crimes that occur daily...

I think the biggest shift from the supernatural to the natural, Glenda, was the development of science – Galileo, Darwin, Einstein, the Curries, are only a few who discovered a much larger world.  The world just got bigger and bigger.  The natural world is so much bigger and wondrous than the supernatural world revealed in holy books – creation and man 6,000 years old vs a world millions of years old – all of life can be put in an ark some 5,000 years ago vs Darwin’s discoveries of just how much life in lived in and under the dirt – the rainbow, why we have different languages, etc. all make the supernatural so simple compared to the complexity of the natural.  We now know that life can evolve from non-life (rocks that create a kind of chemical reaction in certain situations for example).  The more we learn about the things once thought supernatural leaves us with no need of the supernatural.  Things we can’t understand now will be explained in the future naturally.

Not totally comfortable that our world just popped up out of nothing...


Moving on to your Foreword and on into the book, could I ask you to define yourself as the type of spiritual person, if any, that you consider yourself now? This is partly asked based on your statement, "The person who knows his own instinctual heart soon realizes that God did not create us in His image, we created God in our image." I guess the bottom-line question that still burns for me is, "Do you believe in God?"

I believe in the gods of history, like I believe in temples and churches.  I see them everywhere and I see the gods they created everywhere.  All of us are unbelievers when it comes to all the gods throughout history.  Many make one exception that I do not make.

I'm not making light of what you are saying, but I just read a book about Egypt where, at the time, they had a god of crocodiles, for one. I'm not quite sure I can accept that "accepting" that the Egyptians "believed" in that god, would equate to my believing it that god or where he was worshipped... If we were truly having this discussion, I'd be calling for further discussion on this one! LOL...

I love how you express yourself, while standing firm on your statement. It shows the length and breadth of your study in arriving at your present life...

While recognizing that much of what you say here is true, I'm not sure it fits totally ...Accepting that God did not create us in His image, does not then mean that my instinct that there is a God is not correct. In fact, for me, most of my "God experiences" have totally taken me by surprise and could not, in my opinion, have  been generated by my own mind... Do we not have to naturally think of something before it enters our mind?

Moving into the body of the book must first start with the family and religion into which you were born. For some of us, when we read how strict your life was, we would today consider your family fanatics...  Calvinism (also called the Reformed tradition, Reformed Christianity or the Reformed faith) is a major branch of Protestantism that follows the theological tradition and forms of Christian practice of John Calvin and other Reformation-eratheologians" My question then relates to your opinion of your family environment versus the overall membership of the Church during your lifetime. It seemed to me that your strict home life surely led to the specific actions that finally evolved into your life today. Would you be willing to elaborate or hone in to specific issues that finally broke you away from your early beliefs?

Religious culture changes with the time and today we live in a much less authoritarian culture, than the culture of early Calvinism.  Calvin was a brilliant theologian, but also a fanatic in every sense of that word as we look back.  He put to death people who did not keep the Sabbath when he was ruler supreme in Switzerland.  Calvinists burned witches in New England and created Hawthorn’s Scarlet Letter.  The Dutch Calvinists that came to America in the early 1900’s were not that cruel, but were humorless and authoritarian, especially with children.  My parents were not cruel, but the God they presented to me was scary.  I think you bring up an interesting point.  If the psychological need for religion partly comes from our helplessness and the need for strong father, it creates a conflict.  The stronger the father the better the protection and the stronger the father the more he is to be feared when disobeyed.  I think for many the comfort of protection outweighed the fear of disobedience.  I certainly prayed to the strong father and received some comfort of protection, but the fear of punishment was stronger.  So when I realized that God was an illusion, it wasn’t as hard for me to give up the illusion of comfort to be rid of the fear of punishment.  I sometimes wonder if my religious life did not become so oppressive in time, would I have found the courage to confront the truth of it as I did.  It’s not a pleasant thought.  




How hard was it for you to finally accept that the Bible was not the Word of God?

That too turned out to be a conflict in the end.  After immersing myself in the Bible since childhood, I zealously defended it for years.  But when I became a minister I had to preach from the Bible two times each Sunday and teach it every Wed evening for 15 years.  The last few years became difficult.  I was continuing my education and my thinking was maturing.  There are many passages of the Bible that are very distasteful to human sensibilities and I mention many of them in the book.  The Bible began to shrink in terms of what I could preach about.  I found less and less helpful passages that I could bring to my congregation, but what choice did I have as a “prisoner of belief.”  Yes it was very difficult to confront the limitations of the Bible and see it as a very human book by ancient writers with ancient values.  But again, as it became more oppressive to my growing sensibilities it became a relief when I no longer had to treat it as the authoritarian message from an authoritarian God.

For me, I'm sure because of the lesser ties to religion itself, it was not hard for me to see the Bible as a historical book, written for the time...What was hard for me, however, was the "guilt" I've experienced because of the conflict between my intellect and my beliefs... 

You obviously were having trouble within your own family--what made it important enough to break with family and move in a different direction than your early life...

I never broke from my family.  My family broke from me, but they would see it the opposite.  When my critical thinking evolved I came to different conclusions than what was presented to me as the absolute orthodox position.  To question orthodoxy is to be disloyal and a betrayal of your religious team.  I had no problem with members of my family thinking differently than I did.  But to them I was betraying God and my Family and they had to relate to me accordingly.  I notice that Evangelicals among the young today are much less separatist as older evangelicals.  My siblings do not have any mutual friendships with non-evangelicals.  Their entire social life revolves around their church community.  They reach out to unbelievers and non-evangelicals to try and convert them.

Agreed! This is one of the things I've never been willing to accept...When each and every church or temple segregates from others, how, then, can we ever be a world of peace???

May I get a little more personal at this point by bringing up the issue of sex, not only within your own family, but as you began to consider your own sexuality. Your mother's guidance was extremely harsh, even during the years when we were growing up--to consider sex as not a meaningful part of family love which was only to be endured for the sake of having children--you were faced with an almost impossible situation to approach your own teen years, was it not?

The history of Christianity is the history of hating your natural desires.  To be holy is to be non-sexual or un-natural.  Christianity does not celebrate the sexual Mary who brought Jesus into the world, but the Virgin Mary that brought Jesus into the world.  The dogma of the Virgin Birth is something Fundamentalists and Catholics will die for.  Again with the sexual revolution of the ‘70’s and ‘80’s, where sexuality became fun and an essential part of being human, forced the church to loosen up a little.  But saving sex for marriage, not even living together with the partner you intend to marry, is still huge for evangelicals.  But as Mark Twain quipped, “The world has corrected the Bible.  The Church never corrects it; and also never fails to drop in at the tail end of the procession – and take credit for the correction.”

Today evangelicals can celebrate a vital sexual life among married people, but only among married people who don’t get too kinky with each other. That could not be considered in the Victorian period which influenced my parents.  Of course Freud was the psychologist who discovered that this repression, hypocrisy and guilt was making people sick – both mentally and physically.  That’s interesting to me because Freud is thought of as this sexy guy when he was extremely sexually repressed by today’s standards. Living in a modern world with the weight of Victorian oppression and guilt was extremely crippling of my developing true self.  Developing a false self is not a joyous and free life. 

I have long wondered how the church has gotten away with the sexual ideas they've established... Especially when, there has always been sexual corruption of individuals within the church, initially hidden for many, many years by the Catholic Church... and later non-Catholic church leaders... And then brought to light as more and more denounced these actions.

As a single person, not necessarily by choice, many people face a life lacking intimacy, according to the church...or suffer guilt for even considering violating the rules!  Then there is the concept that "suicide bombers will get virgins in heaven for killing themselves and others."! My heart cries for those young people who are seduced by such lies... I once started to accumulate some books about the issue of sexuality in modern times...but was not successful in finding possible references (except for what you just said above, LOL) for justifying dogma-free sexual activity...

Still, the extent of abuse, degradation, and flaunting of sexuality across today's world, in every way appears to me, at least, to be based upon a lack of appropriate and understanding guidance from the church, the family, and all who are involved in making decisions. The explicit nature and the dangers of sex in today's world infuriates me! (By the way, I'll be sharing more on this area during the next week based upon another book...)

  
Given your own personal experiences, would you be willing to share your basic philosophy--your guidance--to teenagers and young adults regarding sexual activities?

Sexuality – Forget the rules, enjoy it.  It’s one of the most physical and emotional pleasures we can experience and it’s free, burns calories and keeps our minds and body stimulated and healthy.  When we lose all sexual interest (and I’m not talking just about intercourse) we become boring.  We are sexual beings and it’s a tragedy that religion and our puritanical roots can still make us feel guilty about it. But we can change that – not all at once of course, because our intellect is no match for early prohibitions that made no sense.

I raised 5 teenagers; 3 daughters and 2 sons.  I talked to them openly and realistically about sex.  I wanted them to be well informed about the psychological and biological realities of sex.  I wanted them to be in total control of how they explored their sexuality and to do this in a safe and healthy environment, both physically and emotionally.

Becoming a Christian and accepting Jesus as your personal savior was your first significant move away from your family's beliefs. From my reading, you seemed to really become more involved at this time and tuned in to the beliefs and gifts of the spirit. Tell me, if you would, how did you ultimately explain to yourself that speaking in tongues was not real, or if that is incorrectly stated, how did your thinking process allow you to ignore something that some call a supernatural event?

Becoming a Born Again Christian was something meaningful to me and somewhat outside the Calvinistic framework.  It was not my parent’s religion as such.  It was mine and appealed to young people.  It was a way of embracing a spirituality that facilitated an individuating process.  I’ll always appreciated it for that, though I find it hard to appreciate my fanaticism that came with it.  All my mental and psychological experiences were still thought of within a

religious framework.  How could it be any different?  When I realized the supernatural was really an activity of my own brain, I was awe struck at the beauty and depth of the natural world.  I still love to speak in tongues.  I do it when playing with my kids and wife and they try to shut me up with little effect.   

OK, I've already mentioned to you that this is a problem for me. I do not turn on tongues, nor did I set out to speak in tongues, nor have I expected them, when they actually occurred. Additionally, in my experience, I have had other experiences that had no explanation... 

For instance, once there were special missionary speakers coming to a local church and a friend invited me to attend. Prior to being invited, I had felt anxious, like something was going to happen... It did, after I had come home, I spoke in tongues and had a visual experience of being in a prison when apparently I was "filling in" for a loved one for a Siberian prisoner. I wrote to the individuals and they totally scoffed it off, setting about to prove that it was purely in my mind... and sexual in nature, which it was not... By the way, I had asked a friend to come be with me that night because I didn't know what to expect--so actually had a witness to the event... Soooooo, if this is really all in my mind and not supernatural, then, why oh why would all of these come to me from outside, as opposed to from my subconscious... I guess I'm disagreeing with you that there is not a supernatural experience that happens to people across the world... seemingly from a supreme being...

I began to speak in tongues after I heard it many times.  At a moment when I was so filled with joy and gratitude I just let myself go – like in a good orgasm.  Forming words were too restrictive.  It was a wonderful way to glorify God, who at the time was responsible for everything good in my life.  Allowing myself to be completely uninhibited and just letting unformed words to pour out of me was freeing and felt spiritual.  I can get in that state anytime, even playfully. 

It sounds it was very different for you, like being taken over by a spirit talking through you.  Of course it all goes on in our own brain and our brain is especially wired for seeing thing and hearing things and feeling things that seem outside the natural.  I have a good friend who is an intelligent mystic and he has all kinds of mystical experiences that cause him to totally disagree with me.  I think mystics are a certain breed who have a hard time realizing how their brain works.  If you are prone toward mystical experiences, it’ll be hard to see it in the natural world, but in cases like you, so what?  Maybe I’m still too ignorant in this area.

Ok, John, I allowed myself a little chuckle on "mystic" and then promptly went to the dictionary..a person who seeks by contemplation and self-surrender to obtain unity with or absorption into the Deity or the absolute, or who believes in the spiritual apprehension of truths that are beyond the intellect. 

For me, I've never questioned "what" it was...although every time it has happened, I've been told to, for instance, provide money to a stranger, or have gone into tongues when I've tried to pray for somebody about whatever was their health problem... Once I even read a book, perhaps something like yours, that threw me into total darkness, aloneness...After it was over, after having shared the experience with a friend who prayed for me, I got the message that the feeling was what people feel who do not believe in God... which, I acknowledge, could have been my own thoughts???

So I've always felt it was merely one of the gifts of the Spirit--The Word of Knowledge-- that had been given from the Holy Spirit..."The Word Of Knowledge, therefore, is knowledge received from the Holy Spirit to enable us to more effectively minister to the needs of people, to know and understand situations, circumstances, strategies of the enemy (kingdoms of darkness), etc. It enables us to knowhow to speak in the above situations with a knowledge that can surprise, baffle, dis-arm, open-up, bring answers, healing and understanding. The Word of Knowledge is one of the nine Gifts of the Holy Spirit which we read of in 1 Corinthians12:1-11. All these gifts are of the Holy Spirit, and are Spirit-inspired. They are supernatural in nature, to help the Spirit-filled believer to bring the presence and reality of the Living Christ into a situation, as well as to bring answers to humanity — both individually and collectively."

Since I do not know the source of these experiences, however, I would not argue with you, John...But I think I know why your friend has disagreed with you on his own experiences...Perhaps you should spend more time with him...discovering...LOL Teasing you a little... Maybe even we'll learn more Farther along... and, yes, the words are in another language on purpose...having fun on this! Perhaps at your and some other expense if you don't know the song, "Father Along..." (check for it on Utube if you want to hear the English.)

I found it interesting that, in studying for your early careers as minister, you were able to research sufficiently that you came to discredit much of what you were being taught. Knowing that few conduct research like you have done, do you think that your book will impact the "average" Christian?

I hope so because I think “Truth” is still a very important value.   The pursuit of it not only makes one more connected with the real and more alive (not always the most fun) but also any real advancement in the quality of human life depends on it.  My book certainly does not contain “the truth” but I hope it shows how satisfying it is for the average person to become a “lover of wisdom.”

As you have mentioned, we do seem to grow wiser as we grow older. You have written your book, but I find little about you anywhere on the Internet... Do you feel that having shared your story is sufficient:

I love how much the internet has given to my life, but my life is about connecting deeply with people.  To do that I need to see the facial expressions that change by the second, to smell the smells,  hear the tones, feel the touch of the skin if nothing more than a handshake, hear the quietness, experience the experience and encourage people to live a less robotic and mechanical life.  I think there is a danger to value efficiency more than slowness and I don’t want to live in a world where slowness disappears.  The man on the street slows down when he starts feeling and thinking.  The man who wants to get away from his inner thoughts quickens his pace.  I want people to hurry and read my book, a book about my slowness.  I want to engage with thinking people, but I don’t want to take the time to do social media.  What a paradox.

Well said. Recently your peer, (a little kidding there) "Dr. Phil" hosted a program about a family whose mother had apparently kidnapped two daughters...Her brother calmly claimed that he had put everything out on social media so everybody could be involved... I thought...What in the world are we coming to that everybody wants to share those most intimate details on the Internet for everybody to know about... Reality shows, to me, are scary and reflect a psychologically infected society... I wish you well in finding those who are willing to think about whether they, too, are prisoners of belief and allow your book to speak to them...

No, John, it makes perfect sense to me, especially given your primary purpose in writing your book... Still, as I said yesterday, if I had the money and ability, I'd see that everybody in the world would have a copy...not kidding... If we humans cannot wise up and question, this world will continue further into the depths of war and depravity--just my opinion, of course...

I agree with you that each of us have been indoctrinated into a belief system long before we could think for ourselves. I remember back in the early 60s I wrote a response to an article for the campus newsletter about confirming and/or finding your own beliefs. For me that has worked fairly well. But, tell me, why did you feel you had to totally separate yourself from religion, if indeed that is what you've done.

I don’t know if totally separating myself from religion captures it for me, Glenda, though you have a right in your perceptions of course.  I would say when I came to the end of the road with religion I just kept going.  For many explorers of what’s real, religion becomes part of the process that wears itself out in time, and one must go on without dragging it along.

An excellent response...

You've struck upon an issue for myself that continues to haunt me...Having a personal savior is, in a worldly term, a security blanket. I never feel alone. The Holy Trinity is there...always... Tell me why you see this as a problem. Consider the groups such as Alcoholics Anonymous who have a Higher Power as part of their programs. Every group of people throughout the ages have "created" a God to worship. To me, that says that we humans see that there is something more powerful than us, that we have an inborn need to recognize that "other."
Intellectually disproving many of the world's religious books, including the Bible, doesn't to me, change that very personal human need... Thoughts?

As a psychologist I want to help people see that the power they often attribute to God is really a power they can access in themselves, but if someone is helped in kicking a destructive addiction through appealing to a higher power, do we really want to argue with that?  I still have all the mystic experiences I had when I was a believer.  But knowing that these are a part of my natural brain and the wonders of the natural world, seems to make them more wondrous for me.  

But there is this trap that religious people fall into that does not serve them well.  All the good things that come into their lives they attribute to God and his blessings and all the bad things they attribute to their lack of faith etc.  (Or the Devil...) They rob themselves of feeling good about what they have accomplished, but take all the responsibility for the bad; not a good psychological outcome for a person. I totally agree! 

But there are no atheists in foxholes they say so in moments of terror it is quite natural to call out for the great protector.  Again, so what?  I think we must respect another’s religion in the same way we respect a child’s belief that her father is the strongest man in the world.  Of course we fear our legitimate helplessness as we fear death.  But once we acknowledge that fear, it becomes less fearful.  We can face those fears and live with them without ruining our lives.

If I had more time to argue, then I would ask about all the violence that has and is still being caused by religion against religion...for me, it is hard to accept that everybody who believes that America is "lost" since we do not believe as others, means that our "religions" MUST be viewed as the main problem in the world... Actually, I would not be arguing with you, but wanted to clarify my thoughts about violence based upon religion...any religion...

I recognize that your experiences has allowed you to see "the difference between knowledge born out of loyalty to a belief system and knowledge gained through self experience and insight. I have no problem with agreeing. Again, there would be a lot less violence world-wide, if all of us did more of this, rather than following the mandates of authoritarian leaders. But, don't you think that your book, itself, can lead to doubts and questions that some people cannot deal with alone?

Of course.  But haven’t you experienced the difference, as I have, between a teacher who insists on thinking for us and a teacher who inspires our own good thinking?  Thinking through our own lives and being grounded in our own earned realities gives us great confidence and psychological power.  We become a voice instead of an echo.  We have a kind of earned wisdom we get to share in any serious conversation.  Most people don’t listen to people who are right, but they listen to people talk about things that have captured their best mindfulness.

Well said...

Your turning to psychology, in your desire to help people, is a perfect alternative for you in my opinion. Your experience and self-reflection now allows you to be more objective in evaluating and helping to respond to the needs of others. I wonder though, most of us are uniquely alone in facing some situations, even if we are in the midst of a family. Is there not somewhere a balance between faith and religion? Can we not acknowledge that man-made rituals and symbols have proven to be not only false, but many times dangerous--leading to wars, suicide bombers, hating anybody different, etc. without "throwing out the baby with the wash water?"

The idea that religion helps raise the morality of a person and society is a great myth.  Parents with little religious convictions want their children to have some sort of religious training for that reason.  What we really mean is that for people to be moral they need policing. Unfortunately that is not a myth.  I think history and empirical research has shown that religion has little to do with morality.  Human morality is a part of our evolution as well as cruelty.  A religious person who has achieved a morality that needs not be policed, will use his religion to motivate great moral sensitivities and action.  The person who is cruel will use his religion to support his cruelty.  It’s not religion, but the person behind the religion. Is there anyone more religious than Isis or the Pope?  Isis uses their religion in a way that make other Muslims cringe.  The present Pope is the only Pope ever to address the dangers of unregulated capitalism and environmental responsibility.  Is it because he is Catholic or the Pope?  I don’t think so.  Catholicism has been around a long time and there have been many Popes that were silent on these issues. It’s because he seems to be a very decent human being, who also happens to be a Catholic and the Pope.  If he were a secularist, he would be concerned with the same things, because that is who he is morally, not what religion banner he does or does not fly.  Of course we all need policing at junctures of our lives, but to achieve a morality that needs little policing will not come from the religious police.  We have it in ourselves to be good and fair to one another. Why not keep working on that reality?      

I thing we agree more than disagree and your book has certainly been of help to me as I move forward in discovering my own reality... I remember a former boss of mine who had rejected his religious background...but he was such a moral man... I just knew that because he was no longer involved with the church did not make him a changed man. Most time, logic works for me when I stop to consider--except, of course, when my emotions overrule...LOL... I admit it! Will I be able to settle my contradictory thoughts on Christianity and religious dogma in particular, the thing is I'm not sure I want to...even if my logic tells me what you have gone through is similar to what my life's inner thoughts have been... What I do acknowledge is that I have some strong feelings that much attributed to religion, no matter which, is ridiculous and many are not strong enough to consider that the religious doctrine is the problem, not their own minds... Myself included in that, though still working on it!

Thank you so much for taking the time to share with me and readers here at Book Readers Heaven...  Let me know how you are doing in light of your book being out...and keep me involved when your insight...changes... Perhaps you might even come to visit here again in the future! Thank you, most of all, for your book and patience in answering my questions about the concept of Belief!


Glenda